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The Valley Ground Guide
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- CommentAuthorSolaraddick
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
I sent an e-mail to Matt Wright at the club re the commentary situation- he approved that I post his reply here for information...
"Thanks for the message Clive. I had noticed some of the discussions regarding the CAFC Player commentary.
It's important to note that all of the commentators do not work for CAFC Player or indeed the club, but BBC LONDON, which pays their wages and decides who attends which matches.
Indeed, their primary role is not to report on games for CAFC Player, but to do their job for BBC LONDON.
As part of an agreement we have reached with BBC LONDON (which took a lot of hard work on both sides), we have come to an arrangement by which the club benefits from this resource and supporters can gain access to
commentary.
Obviously, we liaise closely with BBC LONDON but the club has no fixed commentator and BBC LONDON allocate commentators as they see fit depending on the matches on the day. It would be very difficult for the
club to interfere in this." -
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CommentAuthorBlackForestReds
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
Thanks for sending Matt the e-mail, I was sceptical about the claims made about her until I tuned in on Saturday.
The problem is partly that she's awful at her job, but mostly that the BBC seem to like attaching a commentator to a club, presumably on the grounds that the commentator gets to know the style of the players and can refer back to previous games. I've no problem with that, except we've been lumbered with her and probably will be for some time. In fact that makes her commentary worse, because by now she should know the player's names, their best positions and style of play. Looks like we are going to be stuck with her for some time... -
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Reading between the lines then; it was hard to get the deal done and if it wasn't done there wouldn't be any commentary. I think people have to ask themselves whether they would prefer no commentary and if that's the case, stop whinging and don't subscribe to CAFC Player. And for those in the UK - get to more games.
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or start to bombard bbc london with complaints and ask her to be moved to millwalls games
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I personally think that to complain to her employers about her just because you don't like her style is excessive. There is a human angle here.
I think the bloke on Sat was worse, but Emma seems to be getting the brunt of it. -
- CommentAuthorPragueAddick
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
Posted By: AshTrayI personally think that to complain to her employers about her just because you don't like her style is excessive.
its not just her style though. a large number of people (and not just here) have complained that they simply cannot get any picture of the game, any clear idea of what is happening. Thats a serious problem. -
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CommentAuthorBlackForestReds
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
Her style is what's wrong - doesn't seem to know the players names...long...pauses..in...sentences...followed by inane remarks, sorry but she isn't suited to radio commentary. -
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- CommentAuthorAtletico Addick
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
She'd be alright to have a chat to about football (never thought I'd say that), but you're looking for a last minute winner to seal yourself an all important win and you don't have a clue what's going on... just what colour shirt were wearing and Jonjo Shelveys inside leg measurement. A lot of ' and it's back to the... and it's a throwin ', all good if I knew who had the ball and where the throwins were. -
I think the BBC will interpret any criticism as a load of blokes having a pop because they don't like a woman doing the job.
To this end, we need to highlight her lack of talent and try to make the fact that she is a woman totally irrelevent.
Perhaps some female fans who aren't impressed could send an email?
I noticed during the commentary that she kept mentioning Radio Kent.
Does this mean that the same service is available for people who live down there for free, on the radio?
If Radio Kent stream the game on their website why are we paying? I'm sure we could all pick it up wherever we live.
And why is it Radio Kent while the deal is meant to be with BBC Radio London? -
What do you want for less than 4 quid a month? She'll get better I'm sure.
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Posted By: AshTrayI personally think that to complain to her employers about her just because you don't like her style is excessive. There is a human angle here.
I think the bloke on Sat was worse, but Emma seems to be getting the brunt of it.
So if we don't like something we like it or lump it? If I ring up the bank tomorrow and the person on the other end of the phone is useless at there job I'll complain. Just the same as if someone rung me at work they should expect a certain level of service.
I'm afraid the woman is awful and it's not because its a woman. She seems unable to string a sentence together without a 5 second pause between each word, she talks about everything apart from the game so you don't actually know what's happening and would rather talk about what colour boots Sam is wearing! -
- CommentAuthorFloyd Montana
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
4 quid a month?
Nah, free on the BBC.
Still not worth the money though -
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CommentAuthorBournemouth Addick
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010 edited
I don't subsribe to CAFC Player and have very limited experience of her commentating so might not be my place to chip in... but I will anyway.
I think the response from Matt Wright is a little bit like a retailer washing their hands of a problem and passing you on to the manufacturers. I fully understand it's a difficult situation, there's a person's aptitude being questioned for instance, but the bottom line is that subscribers are paying for a service that many are unhappy about. Now from a business point of view that's not a healthy situation and the club should be making some representations to BBC London, their providers of the service, to improve the final product or guess what? Those customers will go elsewhere next year...
I hope that's happening behind the scenes and maybe someone will have a quiet word with her about uping her game and or even send her somwhere else for a bit to give everyone a break. Emma included. -
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- CommentAuthorellisaddick
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
When you try and avoid her and listen to the other clubs commentary, they have someone obviously knowledgeable and biased for their own club why don't we have this? -
[quote][cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]What do you want for less than 4 quid a month? She'll get better I'm sure.[/quote]
Are you her dad/brother/lover? She might get better in the long run, but meanwhile I am paying money to hear a commentary which gives me no idea what is happening on the pitch. -
March Jnr's first game was in 1985 when he was nearly 5 and I remember him asking me all sorts of questions about what was going on and who's who etc. etc. Emma reminds me of that day: there's a naiviety in her commentary that I've never heard from a commentator before.It's as if she happened to be out doing her Saturday shopping and someone's said "She'll do", then yanked her into a football ground, shoved a mike in her hand and just told her to get on with it! In its way I find it both refreshing and bloody annoying and whether I could put up with it every week is debatable but I do know she sounded as excited as I did when that equaliser went in! Charlton has always had it's share of eccentrics (even as Chairmen) , and you never know, Emma could be the lucky charm that nicks a few extra points for us. I know I'll be in the minority but there are only so many Greens and Motsons about these days. (And anyone who invents a term like "grass-cutter" for a low shot at goal shows some originality)
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The problem I have (can't speak for others) is that I literally cannot make it to games, commentary is the only way I can get a sense of whats going on in games, or at least that's the theory, it doesn't seem to be working here. I get more of an idea from Stelling and co. sometimes. I've got nothing against her personally, I'm sure she doesn't go on air thinking 'let's see how long I can make one sentence last' but its just not good enough IMO.
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I wonder if the standard of football is a factor? Commentating on crap football will not sound as fluent as premiership stuff. I suggest it is a lot more difficult and perversely where an inexperienced commentator will always be expected to cut their teeth.
I don't think she's that bad and do think her gender is an issue for most complainants. I can't stand Alan Green, but I just turn him off rather than write to the BBC about him. Cast your mind back 15 years there was nothing, especially if you lived outside the London area. This is another example of fans having been spoilt in recent years and expecting the same standards despite us being languishing in the lower reaches of the football league.
When you go down you get less experienced players, less experienced refs and less experienced commentators on the radio and pundits on telly - Steve Claridge talks garbage on the FL Show. Conversely, I hear MUTV and Chelsea TV do a great job - maybe those of you who can't stomach the slip in standards should subscribe to them? -
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CommentAuthorcarly burn
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
Did you lot know that Emma is a lifelong Charlton fan.Give the girl a break. -
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Well I like her and I've started a facebook appreciation page for her which already has over 400 fans...
398 said they couldn't stand the cow but I'm sure things'll get better... -
Posted By: AshTray
I don't think she's that bad and do think her gender is an issue for most complainants.
So, because we don't rate the commentator - and have given many many reasons why we think she is flawed/limited/crap - that makes us all sexist, does it AshTray and we are only having a pop because of her gender?
I actually think that's a pretty disgusting thing to be saying about people you don't know or have never met. Let's hope people don't judge you in the same flippant and lazy way. -
give the girl a break, for goodness sake she has to sit through 90 mins of sheer rubbish sometimes and be expected to fill us all with gleeful commentary.......like mentioned before if you don't like it get off your buttocks and get to the games...i think she does OK given the circumstances......
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Just to get this straight, we're now complaining about people who criticise those who complain about our commentator? I just want to keep up to speed with this moan.
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Posted By: denmanragive the girl a break, for goodness sake she has to sit through 90 mins of sheer rubbish sometimes and be expected to fill us all with gleeful commentary.......like mentioned before if you don't like it get off your buttocks and get to the games...i think she does OK given the circumstances......
Thats a stupid comment because not everyone can get off their buttocks and go to the games which is why they pay to listen to an expert talking them through the game. Something that Emma is failing to do. Ashtray what is your obsession of defending her? Do you know her or something. She isn't doing a good job and the people paying for it are voicing their opinions why have you got such a problem with that. If you went to see a film at the cinema and they played the wrong soundtrack to the film would you not complain??? Well thats whats happening here -
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CommentAuthorChirpy Red
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
Could be worse, could be Alan Green! -
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From Rick's email, I gather she is NOT a football 'commentator' as such, but just someone the BBC need to give short 'around the ground' reports every now and then, and perhaps write some match reports after the match.
Her doing some 'commentary' was just an additional extra arranged primarily for the club. If this is true, you can't say she's rubbish at her job, because commentary isnt actually her job... -
Posted By: Si If this is true, you can't say she's rubbish at her job, because commentary isnt actually her job...
Yes i can ...She's ribbish at her job. See it was easy ...............I'm guessing she doesn't do it for free so it is her job -
If you imagine her nude and taking a shite at half time she's not so bad...
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Posted By: uncle
Posted By: denmanragive the girl a break, for goodness sake she has to sit through 90 mins of sheer rubbish sometimes and be expected to fill us all with gleeful commentary.......like mentioned before if you don't like it get off your buttocks and get to the games...i think she does OK given the circumstances......
Thats a stupid comment because not everyone can get off their buttocks and go to the games which is why they pay to listen to an expert talking them through the game. Something that Emma is failing to do. Ashtray what is your obsession of defending her? Do you know her or something. She isn't doing a good job and the people paying for it are voicing their opinions why have you got such a problem with that. If you went to see a film at the cinema and they played the wrong soundtrack to the film would you not complain??? Well thats whats happening here
I could just as easy turn that round: why have you got such a problem with me defending her? It's a tough job, she's relatively new to it, she's trying to make the grade in a male orientated environment and aside from her 'style', I haven't heard any criticism from anyone that would convince me that gender isn't an underlying motivation for these jibes.
I'm not saying it's the only motivation, I think there would be grumbles if she were a fella but nowhere near as vociferous as this. The guy she commentated with on Saturday was worse, but doesn't really get much mention.
Your cinema analagy is flawed. It wouldn't be like that at all. It would be more like watching a crap film, but many elements make it crap. She doesn't commentate on a separate game; that would be silly.
It's unusual to hear a female commentator and people just don't like change or something different. I'm not even saying people are being consciously sexist. Just have a think about what it is exactly you don't like and I reckon it will come down to her 'style', which is largely a euphemism for having a higher pitched voice and knockers (I haven't seen her so I can't vouch for this!)
I go back to my previous point - you can't polish a turd. This football isn't going to sound pretty. I think people would be more tolerant if Emma was a boy. -
I pay for the service, not because I'm interested in the press conferences etc.
I pay because there are games I can't get to, especially if they are midweek and up north.
These are the games I want to be described.
The fact is that many people are choosing to go without something they have already paid for and follow the games through other means such as the BBC updates.
Personally, I usually give her a chance but by the second half I've generally switched to the other teams commentator.
I know she's got to learn somewhere and everyone needs a leg up in any career but it doesn't help the customer.
I love Cafe Rouge but now refuse to eat at the Greenwich branch after I had some bad experiences then learned that branch is used for training.
Emma Jones might be a lovely girl but we are getting a substandard service.
I guess it's 3rd division commentary to go with the 3rd division everything else -
Posted By: uncle
Posted By: SiIf this is true, you can't say she's rubbish at her job, because commentary isnt actually her job...
Yes i can ...She's ribbish at her job. See it was easy ...............I'm guessing she doesn't do it for free so it is her job
See you couldn't say it! You said 'ribbish' instead! -
Posted By: AshTrayI think people would be more tolerant if Emma was a boy.
I find this quite bizarre. People have made it abundantly clear what they dislike about Emma's commentary - the lack of description of events, the interminable pauses between words, the banal comments. No-one has resorted to gender arguments. The truth is that there has been no need to do so.
Defend her if you will. No problem. But please don't fall into the sexism trap as the basis for dismissing the dissatisfaction. Defend her by telling us why we should be happy to listen to comments like "Well, Elliott has hurt his arm, but .... and this will sound silly because he's a goalkeeper .... at least the kicking part of his game will be OK. It's just that the bit where he uses his arms might be a problem."
I defy anyone ... male, female or South African runner ... to come through that unscathed. -
Not all female commentators are terrible. Radio Kent used to have Jodie Fielder who was ok.
Jackie Oatley has improved too although there are better male commentators in my opinion as well as worse. -
I think some of the women here need to chill, it has nothing to do with gender at all, its just the poor commentary. The way some people seem to be reacting is silly, it's like saying 'you don't like Garth Crooks punditry, therefore it must be because he's black and so you're a racist'.
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Posted By: Dave Rudd
Posted By: AshTrayI think people would be more tolerant if Emma was a boy.
I find this quite bizarre. People have made it abundantly clear what they dislike about Emma's commentary - the lack of description of events, the interminable pauses between words, the banal comments. No-one has resorted to gender arguments. The truth is that there has been no need to do so.
Defend her if you will. No problem. But please don't fall into the sexism trap as the basis for dismissing the dissatisfaction. Defend her by telling us why we should be happy to listen to comments like "Well, Elliott has hurt his arm, but .... and this will sound silly because he's a goalkeeper .... at least the kicking part of his game will be OK. It's just that the bit where he uses his arms might be a problem."
I defy anyone ... male, female or South African runner ... to come through that unscathed.
Absolutely spot on Dave. In fact it's only AshTray that constantly refers to the fact she's a woman. Yet he/she is very quick to rubbish and pigeon hole others views and even has the pomposity to say "I'm not even saying people are being consciously sexist". They're not being sexist at all mate - deal with it. -
- CommentAuthoroohaahmortimer
- CommentTimeFeb 8th 2010
you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear -
I haven't even bothered turning the commentary on for the last few games, can't deal with it. She's infuriating.
But I didn't realise I couldn't listen to it because I'm subconsciously sexist. So thanks for that Ash. Your powers of text-based psychoanalysis are second to none. -
Posted By: oohaahmortimeryou can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear
A rolling stone gathers no moss -
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CommentAuthorHenry Irving
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2010
I've never listened to her so can't comment on her ability.
It sounds like she is having to learn on the job which is never easy. Keeping a constant and informed commentary going for 90 minutes is difficult which is one reason that on Radio Five the commentators are switched two or three times during games.
It is especially hard when delivering to an "expert" audience ie fans of the particular club playing who will know the players better than any commentator.
However people are not just saying "she's an annoying bird". As Dave Rudd pointed out people have made quiet clear the, in their opinion, legitimate complaints they have about her knowledge, style and delivery. Hopefully she is getting feedback on how she is doing as well as advice on how to improve. Does Ruth Aubrey still work at BBC Radio London?
Ashtray, you have been asked the question more than once about your relationship with Emma but despite long and well written comments you have given no response. Why is that? -
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CommentAuthorHenry Irving
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2010
Posted By: WSS
Posted By: oohaahmortimeryou can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear
A rolling stone gathers no moss
Too many cooks spoil the broth -