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NEW ARTICLE: Parky, Powell and Patience

Not a happless firm of solicitors from a Carry On film, but as the Chris Powell rateometer heads south as quickly as it advanced north, it’s been interesting to read the understandable re-emergence of whether the Club were right to dispose of the previous incumbent.

Parky was not the great revolutionary, nor tactical genius, but he was honest and committed. His overriding sin was not to prevent us from being relegated to League One, but by failing to get us promoted back out of it.

If you look back on the previous campaign with the benefit of hindsight, there were two noticeable things in play:

1. It was a very decent squad for League 1

2. It was unfortunate that Norwich and Leeds were also particularly strong.


Whether those two were that much stronger than us is highly up for debate. In Norwich's case, i think the core of our squad was stronger than theirs, but they possessed a creative influence in Hoolihan and a match winner in Holt that we simply did not have.

Leeds looked more similar to us but were boosted by both Beckford, and having a manager who had either built a squad of players with the right lower league mentality, or was able to get them 'up for it' more than we could. The big club on the rise scenario also helped give them momentum.

However, were the squad we had capable of more than they produced ?

Most definitely, and reflections of far too many underpar performances re-iterates that point.
A great start fizzled out and only really returned for the last 4 games of the season.

Where Grayson, Lambert or Jackett at Millwall, were able to get under the skin of their troops and coax a reaction on a regular basis, Parky despite his core attitude and intentions was unable to garner such a response.

The respective goal difference for the last half hour of games for last season (ultimately where draws become wins, and defeats become draws) was:

Norwich +33, Millwall +23, Leeds +18, Charlton +8.

Onto this campaign, and if you compare now the squad to last season does that show that Parky was doing a good job following a severe reduction in budget in the Summer to have us in a play-off position ? Or is it reflective that this appears a lower standard league this season ?

I think the answer is probably a bit of both.

I wasn't a ranter who wanted him sacked, but i could see more likelihood in our season fizzling out after once again a decent start, than i could see a side that was improving the more they played together. A disappointing replication of last season was emerging. And something from the application and co-ordination shown in those couple of dire home games leading up to his dismissal told you that something clearly wasn't right.

Now i see a squad that is pretty much ok in ability, but maybe lacking in heart, confidence and determination. It also now has little settled structure or balance. We are currently positioned where we deserve to be.

The one good thing is that if you can get things right, its pretty easy to progress. Getting things right with our budget though is obviously a lot more difficult than you would think it is. Mentality overcomes ability in this league, and sadly if the players don't have the right ingrained approach then you are always playing with a handicap.

Are those currently getting on Powell’s back after this run of defeats justified ?

Of course not, it’s frustration overcoming realism. It is ridiculous to make such judgements after just a few weeks when injuries appear to be having an impact on an already imbalanced squad of players. Football managers are largely governed by their budget, but on a flat budget are effectively guardians entrusted to deliver steady improvement over time. They are not miracle workers, who unless the previous regime had completely fallen apart, are able to deliver instant results within a couple of weeks, or get a player who has been playing football for 20 years to suddenly trap a ball.

Does that currently exonerate Powell from criticism ?

Equally no, it is his job to pick the best eleven to win games, and at present they are not winning. Formations are being tinkered with, players are being played out of position, we look defensively frail as a unit and the desire to include Ecclestone somewhere in the side provides further imbalance.

Powell’s ethos so far appears to be to try and get the team playing improved football. It is a run ahead of a walk, as what is by far the most important approach to this league is matching the desire of the opposition. Win the personal battles, adopt a will-not-lose mentality and then build on the football from there.

Winners come in all forms but at this level it is not just centred on those who can play, but built around a core of those who are organised and those who will fight. Without those values, the ability to play improved football with rightly see you as a soft touch who can be got at.

We must somehow change that mentality as soon as possible. Our home games are not just attractive to opponents because they are coming to a decent arena. First and foremost they are looking forward to it because they know they’re going to face a team that can be got at. We need to become the team that others don’t want to play, not lick their lips ahead of it.

Our manager needs to be given time to rebuild a squad to his preference and assert his values, yet the supporters are rightly frustrated and disappointed with the offerings that are currently on show. It is a horrible, undesirable catch-22 scenario, that cannot just be looked at in isolation because it has blossomed from a backdrop of incompetence and disappointment.

Patience in the stands at this crossroads stage is vital, but it is equally importance that this is a two-way street, and being a soft touch is never something football supporters at any club wilfully accept.

Show the desire, show the mentality and you’ll find the supporters will be willing to be patient for a lot longer than they currently are.
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Comments

  • Good article.

    Posted By: AFKABartram
    Whether those two were that much stronger than us is highly up for debate. In Norwich's case, i think the core of our squad was stronger than theirs, but they possessed a creative influence in Hoolihan and a match winner in Holt that we simply did not have.
    I think a lot of people think this, but did anyone really know enough about Norwich's (or Leeds' for that matter) squad to back up this argument? I don't even know who played in defence for Norwich apart from Doherty - the rest may have all been better players than our back 4. Holt and Hoolihan, Austin and Paynter, Morison, Beckford and Bechio always get mentioned but what about the rest of the squad? It can't have been just the goalscorers that made the difference.
  • A disappointing replication of last season was emerging.

    Yep, wouldn't want that to happen again !!!! 10 minutes away from Wembley.........
  • However, good article.
  • I think if we'd have had BWP last season we would have gone up.
  • I know it is simplistic but if we had held on at Carrow Road for a 1-0 win instead of conceding a Grant Holt injury time winner, which looked like a foul on Elliott. And we had beaten Millwall at the Valley when we were 3-2 up and they had a player sent off, we would now be playing a season in the Championship and this conversation would be redundant.It was a good squad last season but if we had a Grant Holt playing for us i am sure we would have been promoted. The fine lines of football.
  • I know it is simplistic but if we had held on at Carrow Road for a 1-0 win instead of conceding a Grant Holt injury time winner, which looked like a foul on Elliott. And we had beaten Millwall at the Valley when we were 3-2 up and they had a player sent off, we would now be playing a season in the Championship and this conversation would be redundant.It was a good squad last season but if we had a Grant Holt playing for us i am sure we would have been promoted. The fine lines of football.

    Dick, if your aunt had bollox she would be your uncle.
  • Posted By: masicat
    A disappointing replication of last season was emerging.

    Yep, wouldn't want that to happen again !!!! 10 minutes away from Wembley.........
    Our prior gutless performances by PP's team against Millwall suggest that perhaps it was a good job we stayed away from Wembley.

    Good article AFKA
  • Did he play?
  • Posted By: masicat
    Did he play?
    Who's that question to?
  • Good article,

    I believe our squad is probably weaker this year than it was last year, although we have now got a goal striker that we didnt have then. I don't think we can judge Powell yet, he hasnt even had a chance to get players in that he wants, to suit his style of play. That being said, I think Parky got alot out of a team that are probably quite average for this level (I really can't understand people who think we have one of the best teams in the league). Powell should be judge in may 2012, after his first full season as manager, with players that he has got in himself.

    We are not far away from the play off places and a late run of wins (especially against rivals) could propel us into them, in which it is a lottery (as we found our to our detriment last year). We can still go up this year, keep the faith...
  • You? Assuming we judge a manager on the players performance, where does the Carlisle game rank as far as gutless goes? Playing a good Millwall side at the Den or playing a real crap Carlisle side at the Valley? I won't lay in to CP, but see my point??
  • Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta

    Posted By: masicat
    A disappointing replication of last season was emerging.

    Yep, wouldn't want that to happen again !!!! 10 minutes away from Wembley.........
    Our prior gutless performances by PP's team against Millwall suggest that perhaps it was a good job we stayed away from Wembley.

    Good article AFKA
    You mean like the gutless display by Sir Chris Powell's team on Tuesday?
  • Posted By: masicat
    You? Assuming we judge a manager on the players performance, where does the Carlisle game rank as far as gutless goes? Playing a good Millwall side at the Den or playing a real crap Carlisle side at the Valley? I won't lay in to CP, but see my point??

    I didn't go to Carlisle. Did you go to either Millwall game? Whilst I wasnt at Carlisle Im sure the Millwall performances hurt a lot more?

    No of course parkinson didnt play, cherlish question. It was his job to motivate the players, pick the team, fire them up and select the tactics. I saw little over either game that suggested he would outwit Jackett in the playoff final.

    Yes I agree that CP should also be judged on performances and results but my original response was to your point that getting within 10 minutes of the Play off final against Millwall was some kind of achievment. It wasnt....it was failure.
  • Compared to this season it will be an achievement.........................................that's my point.
  • Good post Danny.

    Sadly the fans patience has been totally eroded in the last five years. The board made a correct judgement in that who ever came in was going to have their work cut out and have little time from the fans to get it right. On that basis Powell was a great appointment - the fans were always going to give him more support and time than an experienced manager unknown to us. Sadly he is both inexperienced as a manager and, more importantly, at this end of the league.

    Parkinson had a good grasp of what was needed to win games in this division. I didn't particularly want him kept, but despite having little resources, and no recognisable playing style, we were hard to beat. Ignoring the Millwall local derbies we only conceded three goals twice last season, and in 22 games this term it was at two before his last two games, and I think the pressure on him and the team might have had something to do with that.

    In 5 home games we've conceded 8 goals under Powell (that doesn't include the Colchester one that was stolen from them).

    I'm not looking to blame Powell, but we seem to have completely changed our aspirations without much increase in resources. Lee Martin might have disappointed on occasion, but there's no doubt that he has talent. With him leaving and Eccleston and BWP coming in we haven't really increased our pool of talent significantly, yet we seem to be trying to play like Arsenal rather than trying to battle it out and start by not losing. We have also let Sodje and Abbott go, the former of which went early and was a really good option for the latter stages of a game we were chasing.

    We are getting to the point now where loan signings are going to have to make a huge impact. If the board had sanctioned the signings in January it might have been better. I read somewhere that Powell wanted a young, fast, centre half and a creative midfielder. Here we are in March and we still, obviously, need those two players. We have played 8 games since Powell came in and if either of those players had played four of those games we might be in a much better position.

    Basically Powell is being asked to achieve success with the same players that Parkinson signed without the vision and plans that Parkinson had for them when he signed them. If the board had decided to back up the first four games with some real quality then we might still be chasing for the automatics. Instead it looks like we are going to have to find a way to achieve success with little or no improvements in the squad with a manager with significantly less experience of this division than the one that couldn't do so. We should remember that Parkinson built a side from scratch at Colchester that won promotion from this division. Maybe he was lucky, but in all honesty we have been flirting with the top four with a free or cheap squad for most of this season.

    Big screens and cheap tickets are all well and good, but at the end of the day people have got to be willing to pay money to watch the football, and right now I don’t want to watch it if it's free
  • Well time will tell masicat. If we achieve anything less than failure in the playoffs after CP has the same amount of time that PP was given then I'll readjust my view.
  • Interesting article with some nice aliteration in the title.

    Shame that some of the comments are going back over same old ground of last season although as the article does refer in some depth to that time it's to be expected.

    Personally I found the analysis of this current team more relevant.

    Our home games are not just attractive to opponents because they are coming to a decent arena. First and foremost they are looking forward to it because they know they’re going to face a team that can be got at. We need to become the team that others don’t want to play, not lick their lips ahead of it.

    That, for me is the crux of the matter. I still believe that we have, by division 3 levels, talented footballers in this squad. We do not, or at least not often enough, have an effective TEAM. We have relied on individual pieces of skill or expect our fast players to outrun their full backs and goals to somehow appear because of it. Other teams and their coaches have worked that out and know that if they hold out long enough they will be given a chance or three by our defence.

    The nine men who played against Swindon and the ten v Orient did not lack spirit or graft so it is not as simple as saying that they are "no good" or "gutless".
  • we were leaking goals and the fortunate injury that led to randolph going in goal for the last 9.5 league games letting in just 4 goals was a big bonus
    if parky had half a brain this would have happened earlier and we wouldn't be sloshing about in this mess
    and his failure to recognise who was our best keeper has led to the poor position we are in keeper wise
  • Bring on a bit of failure like that this season. 10 minutes away from Wembley, i would settle for that. Every performance where we don't win hurts. So if we don't get to the play off final, Rodney, and win it are you going to come on here and say Chris Powell failed?
  • Why should he succeed, because we like him? Noobody has a divine right to be a success. We needed experience if we were going to part company with PP. We were unbeaten away from home in 4 months, and that included some big games. The Wallsall home game cost PP his job, it was a awful. But, in 8 games under Powell, we should have lost 7, doesn't bode well.
  • Isn't one of the problems that at this level the individual players do not make that much of a difference - but it is how they add together as a team, the tactics they employ and their motivation that really makes the difference. It is interesting how getting all the "team" factors right is often the difference between success and mediocrity. I suspect Charlton is not too badly off in terms of individual players and where we have failed is on the "team" factors ever sine the arrival of Dowie - and if they are to be fixed it will be a long rather than a short term project which will involve the changing of a lot of bad habits.
  • Posted By: dickplumb
    So if we don't get to the play off final, Rodney, and win it are you going to come on here and say Chris Powell failed?
    don't be a plum you dick , judge powell at the end of next season
  • Posted By: AFKABartram
    Formations are being tinkered with, players are being played out of position, we look defensively frail as a unit and the desire to include Ecclestone somewhere in the side provides further imbalance.
    I'm OK with a lot of what you say, but why do you see the inclusion of Ecclestone as a problem?
  • Nope read my post properly dickplum
  • Posted By: oohaahmortimer

    Posted By: dickplumb
    So if we don't get to the play off final, Rodney, and win it are you going to come on here and say Chris Powell failed?
    don't be a plum you dick , judge powell at the end of next season
    Personal insult,how clever of you Ooohaah. Must have taken you a long time to rearrange those words plum er dick, well done. Are we going to see you on the Comedy circuit anytime soon?
  • dont be so touchy dick

    the point being powell needs to the end of next season to be properly judged
  • I felt sorry for Parkinson as ever since the takeover was confirmed the team did not win, that isn't just the football manager's fault but often when a company is involved in a takeover the employees feel unsettled and their work suffers, football is no different. However at the Swindon game PP looked a beaten man and the Board made the right decision.

    Any good team at any level is built around the spine of the team GK, 2CD, 2CM and a striker and we don't have a strong spine nor has CP, or the Board done much to improve it except for the purchase of BWP. Without that strong spine the team will not achieve promotion and I doubt if a couple of loan signings will make enough difference. The team must be strengthened in these areas and it can't be done until the summer but it would be nice if the current team played with a bit more cohesion and guts which might, just might, sneak us into the playoffs.
  • Posted By: Dave Rudd
    I'm OK with a lot of what you say, but why do you see the inclusion of Ecclestone as a problem?
    Because (to me), his natural position appears to be that of a 2nd striker. But we saw 1st hand that his partnership with BWP had no gel to it as BWP won't / can't play the role he needs to play off, and BWP is rightly picking himself at the minute.

    So he is being played wide, which isn't his natural game because in this league you need to do a hell of a lot defensively in those positions and that isn't his natural instinct. We then tweak the formation on paper so its meant to be a 433, but ultimately to me it leaves us exposed at right midfield. The knock on effort is Francis becoming exposed, and the impact it has on Semedo / Racon.

    The Semedo / Racon partnership has worked best and looked effective in the games they have Bailey / Jackson on left, and Sam / Wagstaff on right; relatively disciplined up and downers on one side, and another playing slightly more narrow on the other. Throw a defensively indiscipled Kyel Reid, Ecclestone or Martin into those slots and its no coincidence we then start getting stretched across the middle and Semdo and Racon lose their individual battles (i actually think like you we need to change the midfield combo, but i'm basing this on what i've seen over the last 18 months).

    I think Ecclestone is being consistently played because we have to justify the loan. I think he is going to be a good player, but like Martin i'm still not convinced what his best position is, and i'm not sure we've seen him playing in it.
  • Interesting posting, but for me it simplifies things too much by suggesting that what we need is a bunch of brave hearted guys who will never give in and if needed put their lives on the line. It is true that teams who are hard working and determined have consistently made things difficult for us this year, however the teams that were promoted last year, and look likely to be promoted this year are well coached to play good football with the addition of a hard working ethic. Our aim is to head back to the top, therefore I believe that CP has the right idea but the wrong players which makes this Summer so important.
  • Posted By: Henry Irving
    The nine men who played against Swindon and the ten v Orient did not lack spirit or graft so it is not as simple as saying that they are "no good" or "gutless".
    Only 3 of the players who appeared in the 2-2 against Swindon are playing regularly for us now - Elliott, Semedo and Waggy (rest of the team was Llera, Basey, S Sodje, Omozusi, Bailey, Shelvey (Dickson), Spring, Burton, A Sodje (McKenzie)). Even the turnaround in players from last season has been massive.

    I don't think the current problems are due to lack of effort or even spirit at all. It's coherency as a team as you rightly say, Henry. Look at the highlights on the BBC website - numerous times one of their strikers drops deep just in behind Semedo and Racon then a simple ball between them slices us apart, then the huge gap between defence and midfield is quickly apparent as our back 4 keep back peddling and Semedo/Racon don't get back. I don't know enough about tactics to know what we should be doing in this situation but it seems to happen in most games to me.
  • Were we really soft touches last season? Our defence was pretty solid and we lost very few games all in all. People bang on about the Millwall games and the Northwich Vics games, which were obvious lows and hurt the fans, but is it fair to use them a yard-stick for the whole season? If it is why are those 3 games so much more relevant than the pummling we gave the best side in the division at the Valley, the 8 wins at the start of the season or the game at Elland Rd in which gave Leeds as stern a test as they had all season? There were plenty of late points salvaged and come from behind wins to show that there was heart in the team too, imo - no game better illustrated that than the 9 men vs Swindon which was not the only time we came away with points despite a numerical disadvantage. You could even argue that the only big game in which we truly failed in was Millwall away as we were unbeaten against Norwich, Leeds & Huddersfield and only lost 1 of 4 games vs Swindon. I think it's fair to say that they gave it their all in the second play-off leg too.

    All successful teams need 3 things: character, defensive solidity, attacking flair. I think we could match teams for Character and defence but we were sadly lacking the player to stick it in the onion bag in tight games. If we'd had BWP playing alongside Burton, I think we may well have won away at Leeds and at home to Norwich as well as other games - away at Wallsall is one that has always stuck in my mind that was there for the taking for the want of a goal poacher. We'd surely have buried one on the many chances we had to seal the play-off semi too. I think knowing we struggled to put away chances there were times he chose to hold what we had instead of chasing something more and risking losing everything - that mentality never plays too well with fans but it's a style which has served managers of less talented teams well through the years, except for a handfull of season when w had the like's of Mendonca, Bent, Di Canio Curbs managed things in much the same way.

    The fact we did not have that striker isn't, imo, Parky's fault - goalscorers always cost money and we just did not have that and without that luxury I think Parky got everything it is reasonable to expect from that team - 4th place, just outside the top 2, in a very tight and very strong division (lets not forget how well the promoted 3 have faired this season) and with one exception we gave each of our promotion rivals tough afternoons whenever we played them.

    Parky's downfall was this season. He struggled manfully to assemble a decent squad on very little cash. I think overall he did a good job of this in the circumstances, but after a steady start and a real purple patch, we expected things to push on and us to become a balanced and coherent looking team who would give teams a good game - Parky himself said he expected us to get better as the season wore on. We went backwards through December though and were very poor at a very poor time for Parky's career prospects. I think somewhat unfairly he never had total backing from the crowd and I think a significant minority were never going to give him any credit - if he had got us up I think some would have just kept quiet rather that applaud him. For that reason I think he had to go for the good of club unity.

    He was getting roughly what there was to get out of this sqaud out of it though - as Powell is finding out it's still lacking a few key cogs and as such is inconsistent. At it's best this team is a top 6 side, at it's worst it's botom half potential, I'm therefore neither surprised or angry by the last couple of results - I beleieve we could just as easily win the next four as we could lose them.

    What I do find worrying is there is certian rudderless feel about us. We're loose tactically, positionally and defensively - all things I think Parky worked hard to improve. The flip side of that is, when it clicks, we look more threatening in attack than we have for a while but we also often look a bit lacking in ideas and our attacks focus on someone breaking through with a dribble or a sharp chance falling to BWP. There doesn't appear to be clear pattern of play about us very often and I think Powell needs to work out exactly how he wants us to play and get on with making them do it.

    It will take time, and I'm not in anyway getting on Powell's back but I think it has to be acknowledged that we seem to lack a bit of direction at the moment - we're starting to drift a bit in the way we did 3 years ago after Reidy was sold and Pardew started to try a different system and 11 every week .
  • As KHA said Parky's sides had no recognisable style except get it forward early to players without the stature or skill (Burton excepted) to hold it up and bring others into play. I have yet to see what style CP is trying to play - he may want us to play on the floor but the players are struggling to do so, and often the ball ends back with Robbie to launch forward. He has send sides out to play 4-3-3 without an obvious plan of a) how to play the front three in, and b) a way of stopping the oppo overrunning our midfield when possession is lost. He has time on his side, but the stated plan is working with this squad, not buying a new one and the single area he has to improve is our defence who are conceding nearly half a goal a game more than last year's far from impressive rearguard.
  • Good article. We need to be patient and Powell shouldn't be judged until he's had a full season with his own squad. Let him build his squad and work on changing things around, just as Poyet did at Brighton.

    Agree with AFKA on Eccleston. I can't see a way to fit him and BWP into the team from the start of games. Like AFKA said, BWP is rightly picking himself. I don't see them as a partnership, I can't see them both playing in a 4-3-3 either. BWP can't really play one of the wide roles, but the central striker in that formation needs to be someone that can challenge in the air and hold up the ball - even if you play passing football on the ground.

    As for his best position, I think he's definitely a striker but Abbott, a Burton or Iwelumo would suit both him and BWP better as a partner. They're too similar and their weaknesses when playing together put even more pressure on Semedo and Racon (especially if we play 4-4-2 with two wingers).
  • Posted By: AFKABartram

    Posted By: Dave Rudd
    I'm OK with a lot of what you say, but why do you see the inclusion of Ecclestone as a problem?
    Because (to me), his natural position appears to be that of a 2nd striker. But we saw 1st hand that his partnership with BWP had no gel to it as BWP won't / can't play the role he needs to play off, and BWP is rightly picking himself at the minute.

    So he is being played wide, which isn't his natural game because in this league you need to do a hell of a lot defensively in those positions and that isn't his natural instinct. We then tweak the formation on paper so its meant to be a 433, but ultimately to me it leaves us exposed at right midfield. The knock on effort is Francis becoming exposed, and the impact it has on Semedo / Racon.

    The Semedo / Racon partnership has worked best and looked effective in the games they have Bailey / Jackson on left, and Sam / Wagstaff on right; relatively disciplined up and downers on one side, and another playing slightly more narrow on the other. Throw a defensively indiscipled Kyel Reid, Ecclestone or Martin into those slots and its no coincidence we then start getting stretched across the middle and Semdo and Racon lose their individual battles (i actually think like you we need to change the midfield combo, but i'm basing this on what i've seen over the last 18 months).

    I think Ecclestone is being consistently played because we have to justify the loan. I think he is going to be a good player, but like Martin i'm still not convinced what his best position is, and i'm not sure we've seen him playing in it.
    I agree, Ecclestone is a problem. For me he is an alternative to BWP - an on the shoulders striker who will get you a goal or 2 if played of a big man who will flick it on, hold it up and link with the midfield. I thinkhe's suited to the wide forward role in a 4-3-3 but i think we need to keep that in hand as an option for games we're chasing, not from the start and, again, you need that bigger physical presence to act as a pivot.

    Having signed BWP, Ecclestone has become a bit of a waste of a loan really, imo. He's a good player but that loan slot would be bettre used in other areas imo. Letting Abbot go has just meant we need to use another slot on another forward too - I know Abbott is limited but his last two games hinted he could do a job for the rest of the year if his confidence could be restored so I just can't make it make snese to let him leave knowing he'd need replacing. That will leave 1 loan slot which means choosing between a midfielder and defender - both which are desparately needed imo.
  • Posted By: AFKABartram

    Posted By: Dave Rudd
    I'm OK with a lot of what you say, but why do you see the inclusion of Ecclestone as a problem?
    Because (to me), his natural position appears to be that of a 2nd striker. But we saw 1st hand that his partnership with BWP had no gel to it as BWP won't / can't play the role he needs to play off, and BWP is rightly picking himself at the minute.

    So he is being played wide, which isn't his natural game because in this league you need to do a hell of a lot defensively in those positions and that isn't his natural instinct. We then tweak the formation on paper so its meant to be a 433, but ultimately to me it leaves us exposed at right midfield. The knock on effort is Francis becoming exposed, and the impact it has on Semedo / Racon.

    The Semedo / Racon partnership has worked best and looked effective in the games they have Bailey / Jackson on left, and Sam / Wagstaff on right; relatively disciplined up and downers on one side, and another playing slightly more narrow on the other. Throw a defensively indiscipled Kyel Reid, Ecclestone or Martin into those slots and its no coincidence we then start getting stretched across the middle and Semdo and Racon lose their individual battles (i actually think like you we need to change the midfield combo, but i'm basing this on what i've seen over the last 18 months).

    I think Ecclestone is being consistently played because we have to justify the loan. I think he is going to be a good player, but like Martin i'm still not convinced what his best position is, and i'm not sure we've seen him playing in it.
    I agree and very well put AFKA.

    And Eccleston takes off down another avenue.

    The activity in the transfer market since the takeover has left me scratching my head. Who signed Eccles? Not Powell as we had even spoken to him. Parky might have had him on a wanted listed or was it Jimenez.

    Since the TO we've signed BWP and Bessone but since them both arriving early on no more loans. The wait to ensure players were available at Old Trafford if we got there made sense but why the delay now. OK, we've missed out (Hobbs to Hull perhaps) but if he wanted a CH who was 2nd, 3rd, etc on the list and why haven't they come in? Puzzling.
  • Interesting comments on Ecclestone.

    I see it a bit differently and would contemplate playing him as the attacking midfielder we so sorely lack.

    You can set football teams up in two contrasting ways ... decide on a style of play and then try to make the players fit that style ... or ... settle on a style that plays to the strengths of the players you have. That's what I'd do with Ecclestone, and what I would have done with Martin.

    Put Semedo (and maybe even McCormack too) in behind Ecclestone, with clearly-defined roles for all three of them (Semedo - protect the defence: McCormack - chase down the opposition, get in their face for 90 minutes then give the ball to someone who can play: Ecclestone - run at the opposing defence and slip the ball through to Wright-Phillips when the opportunity presents itself). On top of that, generally avoid trying to play two out-and-out wingers and play the ball through midfield rather than lumping it up to the target man we don't have (are you listening, Doherty?) and you have the basis for a style of play that fits our current playing squad. Not saying that we'll win the league this way, but we'll stop getting over-run in midfield and that will bring its own rewards.
  • Just what I thought Henry.

    I understand if he missed out on his top two targets but surely he or whoever is making the signings had other targets to go after as back-ups?

    I stated before the Notts County game that I didn't think we could afford to wait till after Carlisle to bring someone in which now seems to have been the case. I'm worried going into Saturday that we still won't have added anyone.
  • Posted By: dickplumb
    I know it is simplistic but if we had held on at Carrow Road for a 1-0 win instead of conceding a Grant Holt injury time winner, which looked like a foul on Elliott. And we had beaten Millwall at the Valley when we were 3-2 up and they had a player sent off, we would now be playing a season in the Championship and this conversation would be redundant.It was a good squad last season but if we had a Grant Holt playing for us i am sure we would have been promoted. The fine lines of football.
    If PP had been able to get the team to take advantage at the end of the season when Leeds were doing everything they could to give us get 2nd place we wouldn't have needed the playoffs...
    And speaking as one who went to most of the away games last season, if the opposition had taken their chances on the numerous occasions when we were the worst team but managed to come away with points, we wouldn't have got into the playoffs.
    And if Swindon had finished off even a few of their numerous chances when they totally battered us in the 1st leg then we wouldn't have been within 10 minutes of Wembley.

    Lots and if's and buts and we can all select the ones that suit our arguement..


    Sensible writing AFKA.
  • Great article.

    My problem isnt with Powell, he is doing perfectly well for a new manager at a club in a sticky period. I wont get on his back because he is inexperienced and is bound to make mistakes.

    My problem is with the owners for the timing of Parkinsons sacking and their changing of strategy from one day to the next. First Parky was doing a good job, then he was sacked, promotion is vital this season, then its not. As I said countless times at the time, it smacked of a PR exercise to get the fans on board. Only a moron wouldnt want Chris Powell in charge of Charlton at some point, but for me not now, we were ticking along quite nicely albeit with the odd shit result, he did pretty well with some very average players. I personally think he should have been given to the end of the season to get us up, and I would have rated our chances similiar to last year - Play Offs and a lottery, I am not convinced we will get there now.
  • Posted By: Dave Rudd
    Interesting comments on Ecclestone.

    I see it a bit differently and would contemplate playing him as the attacking midfielder we so sorely lack.

    You can set football teams up in two contrasting ways ... decide on a style of play and then try to make the players fit that style ... or ... settle on a style that plays to the strengths of the players you have. That's what I'd do with Ecclestone, and what I would have done with Martin.

    Put Semedo (and maybe even McCormack too) in behind Ecclestone, with clearly-defined roles for all three of them (Semedo - protect the defence: McCormack - chase down the opposition, get in their face for 90 minutes then give the ball to someone who can play: Ecclestone - run at the opposing defence and slip the ball through to Wright-Phillips when the opportunity presents itself). On top of that, generally avoid trying to play two out-and-out wingers and play the ball through midfield rather than lumping it up to the target man we don't have (are you listening, Doherty?) and you have the basis for a style of play that fits our current playing squad. Not saying that we'll win the league this way, but we'll stop getting over-run in midfield and that will bring its own rewards.
    not a bad shout - you have to get those players with ability, on the ball as much as possible and i used to suggest putting martin in the middle because i just couldn't see anybody else in the squad having anywhere near enough footballing ability / craft. Eccles might be worth a try - with oxo and semedo behind him and jackson supporting from wide he may be able to link up with BWP and Anyinsah quite well - lets face it, its worth a try coz there's no way oxo or racon are going to create anything.
  • That's esentially a variation of the 4-3-3 we played vs Exeter, all that happened in that game is they played down the sides of our midfield and isolated the full backs 2 on 1.

    If you going to play someone in the hole they need to be able to link play and ideally pick a pass or two - Danny Murphy and Di Canio are the two we've had who've succesfully played in that position. Ecceletsone is a front runner imo, he want to try and get in behind or run at isolated defenders - he'sgame rvolves around receiveing the ball in those advanced positions, not being the one passing those balls. We don't really have that player in the squad, which has been one of our problems for a while.
  • Posted By: Exiled_Addick
    That's esentially a variation of the 4-3-3 we played vs Exeter, all that happened in that game is they played down the sides of our midfield and isolated the full backs 2 on 1.

    If you going to play someone in the hole they need to be able to link play and ideally pick a pass or two - Danny Murphy and Di Canio are the two we've had who've succesfully played in that position. Ecceletsone is a front runner imo, he want to try and get in behind or run at isolated defenders - he'sgame rvolves around receiveing the ball in those advanced positions, not being the one passing those balls. We don't really have that player in the squad, which has been one of our problems for a while.
    Spot on.

    We got the goal scorer we needed in BWP but we still need that passing midfielder and the dominant centre half. Jackson might still be the first if we can't bring someone else in. I think Jack Hobbs would have been the other if he hadn't gone to Hull. Who else is out there? Martin Rowlands has gone to Millwall so Wilson from Bolton who did well for Swindon last year?

    Regardless as AFKA said we look better with 442 with one wide player playing narrowly and both being willing to work up and down the line.
  • No time to read all the posts on this thread but wanted to say what a superb article, AFKA ! How do you do it ?

    Regardless of whether anyone else has mentioned it,I feel one of the main differences between last season's squad and this, is a certain Mr N Bailey.

    Much maligned at times by some on here but a bullish, fearless competitor...no doubt about that. What formation would SCP be employing on Saturday if he had the current suspects PLUS Nicky in his squad , and would his inclusion make it a more likely to win side ?

    No guesses as to my answer...
  • Quote Dick Plum #6 "I know it is simplistic but if we had held on at Carrow Road for a 1-0 win instead of conceding a Grant Holt injury time winner, which looked like a foul on Elliott. And we had beaten Millwall at the Valley when we were 3-2 up and they had a player sent off, we would now be playing a season in the Championship and this conversation would be redundant.It was a good squad last season but if we had a Grant Holt playing for us i am sure we would have been promoted. The fine lines of football".

    Being even more simplistic. Just scoring one goal at Elland Road would have seen us up!
  • An excellent and thought provoking article.

    If I put my conclusions first, I am in the "Henry", camp in that I believe that in team affairs, the whole is not greater than the sum of the parts. I believe that Chris can get this group of players, playing better and with a winning mentality.

    I am more concerned that blame seems to be bandied around far too much. Is the previous Board to blame? Is/was Parky to blame? Is CP now to blame? Can we blame this player or that player? Is it the lack of pace in central defence that is to blame? Do we blame a lack of creativity in midfield? Can we blame Eccleston for failing to play effectively alongside BWP? Are we as fans to blame for getting too quickly on the backs of the team when things go wrong?

    In short its blame, blame, blame.

    What does a blame culture signal? It signals failure, massive failure and collective guilt that flows from it.

    It is not a new problem, this has been part of our demise for a number of years.

    Collectively the clubs mentality has to change, from board, to management, to fans before the iceberg spotted Titanic that is this club in recent years, can be steered away from disaster and back to a safe and forward heading. Responsibility and acceptance of where we are is the first thing that is required. Beyond that a winning mentality based on a cohesive team is an absolute priority.

    I believe despite the poor results of late, that progress has been made.

    The first thing to change is arresting the failed feeling that surrounded the club up to the start of this year.

    A new Board, with a new vision, has done that. They have swept away the old failed management team and brought in a new exciting manager. They have shown physical signs of renewal by replacing the screen, and they have shown intent to invest the opportunity costs of funding tickets for £5 for the Exeter game. This is good as far as I am concerned.

    I feel sorry for Parky but he was associated with failure and under-achievement and that had to change. I don't blame him but he did have responsibility for what happened on the pitch and he had to be judged on that basis.

    Chris Powell now has, in the short term, to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I don't think he has done this yet, but I wont blame him if he doesn't achieve this. There is talent in the team but an awful lot of it is not performing to a consistent level to make a real difference to the rather stuttering season that has prevailed since the beginning of November. There is also great imbalance in the team/squad. He has to have time to turn this around.

    There may be a couple of new loan signings but essentially the squad, with the addition of BWP, (and the injured Bessone) is the one he inherited. As fans, we must accept that. As somebody said earlier this week on the "pink oboe" list, in the end "you can't polish a turd". Its a bit harsh and we do have some talent but there is no point in expecting miracles with this team. Chris just needs to find a balance which gets this team playing better than the sum of its parts.

    Please, please, please, let us throw out the blame game and get behind Chris and the team. He'll win through for us anyway in my view but it will be much easier if we can get out of the habit of slagging off the players and the manager especially during the game.
  • Posted By: bingaddick
    I believe that in team affairs, the whole is not greater than the sum of the parts.


    In short its blame, blame, blame.

    Excellent post Bing and worthy of an article in its own right. Looking forward not just raking over the same old "who's to blame".

    What I thought Carlisle were was a well organised team who knew their roles, had a game plan, stuck to it even when they went behind, got the break (the first very fortunate deflected goal) and then pushed on. As a team they were greater than the sum of their parts, which as Bing has said before, we have rarely been.

    It's all very well saying "we were crap against Carlisle" and then starting to point the finger but what can we learn from them? What did they do well that we didn't and could we adapt that to our players?

    We are here and we need to start working to get out of here. It is possible. Other teams and Clubs have managed it. As someone texted me today "it will be a long road back but it will happen".
  • We can say a lot of ifs. If we held on at carrow road. If we scored against Leeds at elland road. If we held on to the 4-3 against millsmall. But the teams around us can all say exactly the same. They all let in last minute goals to lose them points.
  • Anyone remember this thread?

    What is an acceptable target this season?

    http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=38841&page=1#Item_0

    Seems like one or two of us have developed a little more patience since those earlier days.
  • Well said bingaddick if you look at the games with Chrissy Powell in charge you will see that there have been periods where Powell has tried to change how the team plays and a number of different tactics have been used and there have even been changes in tactics during the game. And there are also signs that there are attempts to change the team's attitude and motivation. Admittedly some of these changes have worked and some haven't - but Rome isn't rebuilt in a day.
  • All this what if talk really just demonstrates that the margins between success and failure are very fine - what if 1 or 2 of our shots against Exeter in the 1st half had gone in, what if Jenkinson had hit the ball low and scored a second against Carlisle - my guess is the results would have been different and the vast majority would be happy. The difference is that the good teams have the motivation to generate their own luck - how many times did Leeds score in the last 5 minutes last season, why do ManU always see to get late winners?
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