To be fair to the bloke from what I saw on Match of the Day people should have a go at the players not the ref. Both Carlton Cole's bookings could be justified as such, Cattermole's foul was terrible and rightly sent off. Parker & Neill should have both gone too. Maybe Attwell missed those 2 but it is a fast game and certainkly with the Parker incedent Atwell probably showed some common sense in not trying to ruin the game.
It amazes me how much refs get abused when Neill, Parker, Cattermole should be the ones to get abused after their shocking tackles / reactions.
Carlton Cole should NEVER have been sent off! (and I think Cole is a twat, by the way!) - by sending him off and letting Neill stay on the pitch - Cattermole was always going to happen.
Atwell was the cause AND effect of tonight's match
[quote][cite]Posted By: supaclive[/cite]Carlton Cole should NEVER have been sent off! (and I think Cole is a twat, by the way!) - by sending him off and letting Neill stay on the pitch - Cattermole was always going to happen.
Atwell was the cause AND effect of tonight's match[/quote]
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault.
As for "Cattermole was always going to happen"...only if the bloke is a fucking idiot, which of cause he clearly is.
It WAS his fault - he got the sending off wrong, which riled parker (and he should have been sent off for that - which wouldn't have happened, if he hadn't sent Cole off in the first place) - that led to Neill's challenge and then Cattermole's challenge on Parker.
The biggest problem with referees is the idiot pundits that comment on them on MOTD. Great players they may have been but are they experts on the laws of the game? No they aren't
So sorry, I don't agree, the second yellow may not have been given by some refs but it was a serious foul.
Parker should have got a second yellow for his anger after Cole was sent off but the Ref didn't see it and neither did his assistants.
The sending off of Cattermole was a correct decision.
As far as I could see, the only decision he got wrong was the Neill lunge.
As has been said earlier, some of the challenges were shocking and some of the players need to take a long hard look at their reponsibilities because legs could have been broken tonight and careers jeopardised.
Funny thing is I think the second Cole booking is a new trend. His first in this day and age is always going to be a booking late and from behind, no matter what contact was made. As for the second he should never jump across the pitch with his foot raised like that, he should know a defender is going to attempt to clear it, he is brainless. TBH a Donny player got a booking on Tuesday for a high foot and that was a more realistic attempt to play the ball. Thing is that upsets most people is because it amounted to a second yellow, most summarisers hark back to the old days it is a shame but football has changed.
After that though he seemed to lose control and as said above Neill and Parker can both count themselves lucky. As for Parker when he was caught I thought he was entering a freestyle breakdance competition.
He should NEVER ref at the top level or fizzy pop again!
That would be wishing him on us, mate.
I saw him destroying some QPR game. There was a moment when Cook - not my favourite person - got halved with a waste high tackle about 4 foot away from him directly in his line of sight and he just waved it on. The ball continued in the direction Cook was travelling, it was just so obvious. I'd honestly rather find out that him and Clattenburg are taking bribes, because the thought that anyone is that stupid, scares me.
After years of Poll dancing the fact that the FA allows these fools to make our game a laughing stock does not surprise me.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault.
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country
I liked Zola's comments afterwards - that refs are human and make mistakes, and that the players had a lot to answer for too. A rather more mature approach than Steve Bruce's rant.
"The second yellow was a serious foul" Really? His foot wasn't even that high and ref with a shred of common sense would have given the free kick and left it at that.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault.
[/quote]
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country[/quote]
If refs are so appalling - who do you suggest we replace them with?
Just watching the Wigan-West Ham game now and here's what I think IMHO
First Cole yellow was a probably yellow, dangerous and from behind. Good goal from him too.
Parker's yellow was warranted on Brown, maybe even a red as it was high
His second he almost took the defender's head off ffs so Hand G is was a yellow definitely
Parker should have gone for a second yellow and aggressive attitude
Neill should have been redded but was only yellowed
Cattermole rightly sent off.
To say is was Attwell's fault that Cattermole done Parker is woefully wide of the mark. He's a professional footballer. Parker's reaction was ott and aggressive and Neill's tackle was shocking but nothing and no one can condone or take responsibility for that tackle other than Cattermole himself.
Alan Shearer - worst pundit ever, he's the clown - Cole first yellow, yes a question on that but Parker's yellow - did he not see him drag his studs down Michael Brown's shin??? And Shearer says he barely touches him!!! Also he questions Cole's second yellow, as I said above he almost takes the Wigan player's head off. If you notice Shearer has this bubbling anti-referee thing going on under the surface and is only too willing to give his less than expert advice when critisizing match officials....
I do feel sorry for Attwell, he didn't have the best of games when we played Palace but whenever he makes a decision he going to get the Watford 'goal' thrown at him as well as his age, he's in a no win situation...
The players were a total disgrace tonight yet all anyone does is talk about the performance of the referee, just about sums is up for me....and that will trickle down to Sunday park football on the say so of a rubbish pundit like Shearer. Just heard of a player of a supply league team who I am reffing on Saturday who was booted out his club because he disagreed with being sent off by spitting at the referee.
But it was another death knell for the respect campaign.
How can it ever work when twats like Lawrenson slaughter Atwell on TV?
The poor sod gave what he thought were the correct decisions and IMHO, I think he got them right. Both teams should be fined for losing control and playing on the ref's inexperience and reputation.
First of Cole's yellows was debatable but the second he's got his foot head high so he's running the risk of a second yellow. I certainly don't think he got Cole's wrong per se and was within his rights to send him off. Neill's was wrong and the assessor will mark him down for that as well as Parker's red which should have come by hook or by crook.
I was expecting to open this thread and read a barrage of disproportionate abuse toward Stuart Atwell. i have to say I'm pleasantly surprised at what I've read, it's far more balanced and measured than I'd imagined.
I'm by no means a paid up member of the 'referee's union' but being a ref does make you see things in a different way.
Let's clear up the Carlton Cole thing. Please make the distinction between being sent off for a pure sending off offence and for picking up a second caution:
Of course the challenge wasn't worthy of a sending off, but he was sent off for picking up a second caution. A player treads a fine line when ge's already been booked and as we saw last night, he can find himself walking when some think the offence barely warranted it, but two yellows = a red has been in the laws of the game for as long as I can remember so that's that. FWIW I think Mr Atwell got it wrong, I don't think it was a caution. Cole was unlucky but he was not sent off for the challenge !
Regarding the behaviour of the players and Stuart Atwell's performance. We have two things going on here that, when combined, spell disaster - a young referee who arguably isn't ready yet, and top level professional footballers who think they can take advantage of this and use it as an excuse to overeact and take the p**s.
Basically it's a situation that no-one comes out with with any credit. Except maybe , ironically, Stuart Atwell.
Like a footballer would never in his right mind turn down a move of a lifetime, regardless of whether or not he's ready, nor would a referee turn down the chance of working in the 'best league in the world', especially if he's being told by all around him how brillaint he is, how he's the next big thing etc, which no doubt he has been. I heard about the game on the radio before seeing it on MOTD so I watched Mr Atwell closely. Despite clearly getting things wrong he seemed to continue to stick to his game very well, his positioning didn't suffer, nor did his concentration. This shows he is not a bad referee but maybe he's simply not quite read yet.
For me, the FA need to remove him from the firing line for a while and allow him to gain more experience, and maybe look at their whole fast-tracking thing.
Finally, I thought the behaviour of some of those players was disgraceful. Sure, maybe they felt standard of refereeing wasn't quite there but they took full advantage of this and the fact they know he's a young referee - younger than themselves in many cases. Parker in particular made himself look a total twat by his antics.
I'd like to think those players - and the FA - look back on last night and have a think about what actually went on and realise their part in it all. Sadly I know that won't happen and the referee will continue to be the scapegoat.
A tackle from behind (definite yellow) and a raised boot to an opposing players head (yellow).
Atwell obviously realised the media frenzy that would await him if he sent off another West Ham player, hence only a yellow for Neill. The guy is in a no win situation and shouldn't have to put up with it.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault.
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country
If refs are so appalling - who do you suggest we replace them with?
Better refs?
Not all of them are bad, but there are some like the currently suspended Clatty, Shatwell and Styles that are always poor. Why do they continue. Why does the FA select the likes of Poll to represent the country at world cups (he did this twice and made a string of horrific errors both times). Too many of these guys enjoy the attention. Controversial decisions = attention, which gives the Rennies and Ellerys of this world a thrill. If the FA permanently kicked out the grand standers the rest would stop doing it.
The fact that most people know the name of refs by sight, is a bad thing. It's an old truism, but the best refs are the ones you just never notice.
Better refs? That means fast tracking those at level 2 and 3 to Premier League and you run the risk of doing what has happened with Atwell when he's been fast tracked too quickly. It is simply far too easy to say better refs when they are the best we've got. Don't forget what they've had to go through to get where they are, how fit and committed they are, what strain they put on their private relationships having to travel the length and breadth of the country week in, week out. You can moan all you like but unfortunately we're stuck with them and let's face it most of them do a very good job indeed and it's very easy to critisize them. As for them enjoying the attenion has no proof behind it. Most of these officials will referee in front of thousands of people in the ground, millions watching world wide so they will get attention whether they want it or not. I just think it's common thought that referees love attention but other than doing their job to the best of their ability and little else to gain attention.
I certainly agree it does no one any good to slaughter Atwell and totally ignore the disgusting behaviour of the players...
I agree the players deserve blame, but atwell's failings helped it escalate. If he did his job properly then the players wouldn't have started taking matters into their own hands. Players shouldn't do that, but they are always going to.
BTW, Parker's rolling around screaming after cattermole's tackle on him was embarassing. What a waste.
Attwell only got two decisions wrong. And that might've been on purpose so the players didn't kick his head in.
First was not to send off Lucas Neill for the challenge halfway up the opposition player's shin. The second was to not give Parker a second yellow for his behaviour after the Carlton Cole sending off because I believe Brown was booked for behaviour in the same incident. Added to that, he could've gone for his acting after Cattermole's tackle (who was right to be sent off, a very stupid thing to do).
I can see why he didn't send Parker & Neill off though after that, and partly why he was so eager to give Cattermole the red.
I think the biggest problem was that Atwell let the game get Out of Control
He rightly sent Cole off
He should have Sent Parker Off and he should have sent Neal off
all before Catermole would have even fouled Parker
if ever you want to teach people why it is important for the Ref to be in control of the game that was it the 3 incidents above all warrented Red cards
I found Parkers reaction to the cole sending off hilarious he was nearly going to cry i havent seen him that aggitated since fat pat called him spotty parker in the gents at a POTY do.
Cole's 2nd yellow was harsh. He was facing the ball and the defender came from behind. Cole's eye's were always on the ball and there was no intent from him to even foul the opponent. Common sense should have prevailed.
I think the FA/FIFA have made a rod for their own back by retiring referee's when they are more than capable of continuing. Years and years of experience just severed because their DOB doesn't fit the criteria. If they can pass the fitness test let them continue. At his age Attwell should be doing Southern League or Conference fottball and gaining valuable experience and comon sense skills.
Total agree with that re the Cole challenge, even Rob Styles showed that refs are capable of showing a bit of common sense the other night with the late challenge from Racon.
the fact that there was 'no intent' by Cole is immaterial in my eyes, what if he'd made full contact with the guy's head, still no intent, but causing a serious injury. Would that still not be a yellow? Of course it would, maybe even a red, so the ref had to book him. Seem to remember Van Persie being sent off for Arsenal in a European game, where he did same thing as Cole but left the other bloke bleeding badly.
the fact that there was 'no intent' by Cole is immaterial in my eyes, what if he'd made full contact with the guy's head, still no intent, but causing a serious injury. Would that still not be a yellow? Of course it would, maybe even a red, so the ref had to book him. Seem to remember Van Persie being sent off for Arsenal in a European game, where he did same thing as Cole but left the other bloke bleeding badly.
Players get broken legs in quite legitimate tackles. If a legitimate tackle results in a broken leg does that mean the player should be sent off?
Playing devils advocate........ A player has his back to goal on in the box and the ball is at head height that he does an overhead kick and a defender is behind him. Should that be allowed? If so, should we ban overhead kicks?
Better refs? That means fast tracking those at level 2 and 3 to Premier League and you run the risk of doing what has happened with Atwell when he's been fast tracked too quickly. It is simply far too easy to say better refs when they are the best we've got. Don't forget what they've had to go through to get where they are, how fit and committed they are, what strain they put on their private relationships having to travel the length and breadth of the country week in, week out. You can moan all you like but unfortunately we're stuck with them and let's face it most of them do a very good job indeed and it's very easy to critisize them. As for them enjoying the attenion has no proof behind it. Most of these officials will referee in front of thousands of people in the ground, millions watching world wide so they will get attention whether they want it or not. I just think it's common thought that referees love attention but other than doing their job to the best of their ability and little else to gain attention.
I appreciate it is all too easy to say and difficult to do, but if people are just going to wring their hands and shrug and claim that the Styleses and Clattenburgs have a difficult job, it's not good enough. Nobody makes them do it. On the point of them being attention whores - there is proof. Look at Poll's pathetic newspaper wankfest or Rennie's agent. These things didn't just happen to them. Better recruitment is in order. Who interviewed Atwell and deemed him worthy of promotion? I''d take one look at his spotty mug and his weak, quivering lip and I'd just know that this guy is a little bitch who's been bullied and wants his own back on the world. It's not an easy job but I think that it is made more difficult by incompetent refs rather than mardy fans and critical managers.
Just to be clear: I've said it a couple of times but you're not listening (you're reaching for your yellow card now, aren't you)- I'm talking about a particular brand of ref, not the good old boys doing their best to control a bunch of hungover thugs in a mudbath or even the decent pros, I'm talking about scum who screw up constantly in a comedic manner that I just cannot believe is accidental. And if it is they should be removed as any other employee who is incapable of performing their duties.
Refs are like goalkeepers, one mistake and they are pilloried. I saw Attwell ref at Exeter City on Saturday and thought he did well. If I had one critisism of him, its that he makes his decisions too quickly. I know quick decision making is important, but I think he'd benefit from taking a second or two to consider the decision before he gives it. He gave a pen on Saturday for handball, before the crowd had even appealed. This after an Exeter player fired the ball in at 90 miles an hour and it hit the darlo player as he put his arm up instictively to protect his face. IMO not a penalty, though I'm not complaining, I was on Exeter at 5/4 :-)
I had an interesting conversation with one of the QPR fans at work this morning (after he'd apologised for their abject failure to beat Barnsley and Norwich). Their ref on Tuesday night was officiating his first Championship game, and made a couple of reasonably high profile "errors" - he awarded a penalty to Norwich, then consulted with his Assistant and changed his mind, and then later on one of the QPR players was fouled, but managed to stay on his feet and get clear, but the ref had been a bit quick to whistle so pulled the play back. In both cases the players were a pretty aggrieved with the decisions, but the ref literally put his hands up to say "ok, sorry, my mistake" and calmed the situation down. My colleague said he would have happily had the ref for the rest of the season - he didn't get everything right, but he was fair, and didn't let his ego get in the way of the game, which is where I think Atwell goes wrong.
And I'm beginning to think the main thought of the football fans towards them is one of apathy, ridicule and disrespect. In what other sport does this happen other than football??? I personally think Mortimericain's attitude and words about referees are nothing short of appalling and if that's indicative of even 1% of the supporting public in this country than that's very sad indeed.
Playing devils advocate........ A player has his back to goal on in the box and the ball is at head height that he does an overhead kick and a defender is behind him. Should that be allowed? If so, should we ban overhead kicks?
It should be allowed yes, if the player was to miss the ball and hit the defender then it should be a foul. The main difference for me is the way the player's boot is facing. When doin an overhead kick the defender would most likely be stuck with the front of the boot,laces part. With Cole incident, defender would've been hit by the studs which is more likely to result in a more serious injury. Thats just how i see it.
Comments
It amazes me how much refs get abused when Neill, Parker, Cattermole should be the ones to get abused after their shocking tackles / reactions.
Atwell was the cause AND effect of tonight's match
Atwell was the cause AND effect of tonight's match[/quote]
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault.
As for "Cattermole was always going to happen"...only if the bloke is a fucking idiot, which of cause he clearly is.
Were you at the game he reffed for us?
Did you see the Derby game on Sky?
Did you see the goal he allowed at Watford?
He's an embarrasment
So sorry, I don't agree, the second yellow may not have been given by some refs but it was a serious foul.
Parker should have got a second yellow for his anger after Cole was sent off but the Ref didn't see it and neither did his assistants.
The sending off of Cattermole was a correct decision.
As far as I could see, the only decision he got wrong was the Neill lunge.
As has been said earlier, some of the challenges were shocking and some of the players need to take a long hard look at their reponsibilities because legs could have been broken tonight and careers jeopardised.
Thing is that upsets most people is because it amounted to a second yellow, most summarisers hark back to the old days it is a shame but football has changed.
After that though he seemed to lose control and as said above Neill and Parker can both count themselves lucky. As for Parker when he was caught I thought he was entering a freestyle breakdance competition.
I saw him destroying some QPR game. There was a moment when Cook - not my favourite person - got halved with a waste high tackle about 4 foot away from him directly in his line of sight and he just waved it on. The ball continued in the direction Cook was travelling, it was just so obvious. I'd honestly rather find out that him and Clattenburg are taking bribes, because the thought that anyone is that stupid, scares me.
After years of Poll dancing the fact that the FA allows these fools to make our game a laughing stock does not surprise me.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country
I've never heard a manager disagree with a decision that has gone in his favour before.
According to the 'Fans Forum'?
[/quote]
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country[/quote]
If refs are so appalling - who do you suggest we replace them with?
First Cole yellow was a probably yellow, dangerous and from behind. Good goal from him too.
Parker's yellow was warranted on Brown, maybe even a red as it was high
His second he almost took the defender's head off ffs so Hand G is was a yellow definitely
Parker should have gone for a second yellow and aggressive attitude
Neill should have been redded but was only yellowed
Cattermole rightly sent off.
To say is was Attwell's fault that Cattermole done Parker is woefully wide of the mark. He's a professional footballer. Parker's reaction was ott and aggressive and Neill's tackle was shocking but nothing and no one can condone or take responsibility for that tackle other than Cattermole himself.
Alan Shearer - worst pundit ever, he's the clown - Cole first yellow, yes a question on that but Parker's yellow - did he not see him drag his studs down Michael Brown's shin??? And Shearer says he barely touches him!!! Also he questions Cole's second yellow, as I said above he almost takes the Wigan player's head off. If you notice Shearer has this bubbling anti-referee thing going on under the surface and is only too willing to give his less than expert advice when critisizing match officials....
I do feel sorry for Attwell, he didn't have the best of games when we played Palace but whenever he makes a decision he going to get the Watford 'goal' thrown at him as well as his age, he's in a no win situation...
The players were a total disgrace tonight yet all anyone does is talk about the performance of the referee, just about sums is up for me....and that will trickle down to Sunday park football on the say so of a rubbish pundit like Shearer. Just heard of a player of a supply league team who I am reffing on Saturday who was booted out his club because he disagreed with being sent off by spitting at the referee.
But it was another death knell for the respect campaign.
How can it ever work when twats like Lawrenson slaughter Atwell on TV?
The poor sod gave what he thought were the correct decisions and IMHO, I think he got them right.
Both teams should be fined for losing control and playing on the ref's inexperience and reputation.
I'm by no means a paid up member of the 'referee's union' but being a ref does make you see things in a different way.
Let's clear up the Carlton Cole thing. Please make the distinction between being sent off for a pure sending off offence and for picking up a second caution:
Of course the challenge wasn't worthy of a sending off, but he was sent off for picking up a second caution. A player treads a fine line when ge's already been booked and as we saw last night, he can find himself walking when some think the offence barely warranted it, but two yellows = a red has been in the laws of the game for as long as I can remember so that's that. FWIW I think Mr Atwell got it wrong, I don't think it was a caution. Cole was unlucky but he was not sent off for the challenge !
Regarding the behaviour of the players and Stuart Atwell's performance. We have two things going on here that, when combined, spell disaster - a young referee who arguably isn't ready yet, and top level professional footballers who think they can take advantage of this and use it as an excuse to overeact and take the p**s.
Basically it's a situation that no-one comes out with with any credit. Except maybe , ironically, Stuart Atwell.
Like a footballer would never in his right mind turn down a move of a lifetime, regardless of whether or not he's ready, nor would a referee turn down the chance of working in the 'best league in the world', especially if he's being told by all around him how brillaint he is, how he's the next big thing etc, which no doubt he has been. I heard about the game on the radio before seeing it on MOTD so I watched Mr Atwell closely. Despite clearly getting things wrong he seemed to continue to stick to his game very well, his positioning didn't suffer, nor did his concentration. This shows he is not a bad referee but maybe he's simply not quite read yet.
For me, the FA need to remove him from the firing line for a while and allow him to gain more experience, and maybe look at their whole fast-tracking thing.
Finally, I thought the behaviour of some of those players was disgraceful. Sure, maybe they felt standard of refereeing wasn't quite there but they took full advantage of this and the fact they know he's a young referee - younger than themselves in many cases. Parker in particular made himself look a total twat by his antics.
I'd like to think those players - and the FA - look back on last night and have a think about what actually went on and realise their part in it all. Sadly I know that won't happen and the referee will continue to be the scapegoat.
A tackle from behind (definite yellow) and a raised boot to an opposing players head (yellow).
Atwell obviously realised the media frenzy that would await him if he sent off another West Ham player, hence only a yellow for Neill. The guy is in a no win situation and shouldn't have to put up with it.
Not all of them are bad, but there are some like the currently suspended Clatty, Shatwell and Styles that are always poor. Why do they continue. Why does the FA select the likes of Poll to represent the country at world cups (he did this twice and made a string of horrific errors both times). Too many of these guys enjoy the attention. Controversial decisions = attention, which gives the Rennies and Ellerys of this world a thrill. If the FA permanently kicked out the grand standers the rest would stop doing it.
The fact that most people know the name of refs by sight, is a bad thing. It's an old truism, but the best refs are the ones you just never notice.
BTW, Parker's rolling around screaming after cattermole's tackle on him was embarassing. What a waste.
First was not to send off Lucas Neill for the challenge halfway up the opposition player's shin. The second was to not give Parker a second yellow for his behaviour after the Carlton Cole sending off because I believe Brown was booked for behaviour in the same incident. Added to that, he could've gone for his acting after Cattermole's tackle (who was right to be sent off, a very stupid thing to do).
I can see why he didn't send Parker & Neill off though after that, and partly why he was so eager to give Cattermole the red.
He rightly sent Cole off
He should have Sent Parker Off and he should have sent Neal off
all before Catermole would have even fouled Parker
if ever you want to teach people why it is important for the Ref to be in control of the game that was it the 3 incidents above all warrented Red cards
I found Parkers reaction to the cole sending off hilarious he was nearly going to cry i havent seen him that aggitated since fat pat called him spotty parker in the gents at a POTY do.
I think the FA/FIFA have made a rod for their own back by retiring referee's when they are more than capable of continuing. Years and years of experience just severed because their DOB doesn't fit the criteria. If they can pass the fitness test let them continue. At his age Attwell should be doing Southern League or Conference fottball and gaining valuable experience and comon sense skills.
Seem to remember Van Persie being sent off for Arsenal in a European game, where he did same thing as Cole but left the other bloke bleeding badly.
Just to be clear: I've said it a couple of times but you're not listening (you're reaching for your yellow card now, aren't you)- I'm talking about a particular brand of ref, not the good old boys doing their best to control a bunch of hungover thugs in a mudbath or even the decent pros, I'm talking about scum who screw up constantly in a comedic manner that I just cannot believe is accidental. And if it is they should be removed as any other employee who is incapable of performing their duties.
The main difference for me is the way the player's boot is facing. When doin an overhead kick the defender would most likely be stuck with the front of the boot,laces part. With Cole incident, defender would've been hit by the studs which is more likely to result in a more serious injury.
Thats just how i see it.